Discuss Langston Hughes' "The Negro Speaks of Rivers" & Octavio Paz' "The Street"
- You need to write one conversation starter (1 paragraph) about any or all of the poems. Your conversation starters can be personal or reflective in nature, or they may be analytical. Refer to specific lines and incorporate quotes in your response. You may also pose questions as well.
- You will also need to reply to at least one classmate's conversation starter (1 paragraph). Be sure to address (by name) the classmate(s) that you are responding to.
Out of the two poems we read this week I found “The Street” by Octavio Paz the most interesting because I was really not expecting the ending. Throughout the poem Paz creates a feeling of hopelessness with his diction (“dark” and “darkness”) and repetition of “silent”. In line two and 3 the speaker says “I walk…” but then he says “my feet trampling”, I took this as the speaker starting to run as he became more and more anxious and fearful. Despite “trampling” the stones they make no noise (“trampling the silent stones…”) this shows the speakers lack of impact on the world as his running feet can't even make a noise on the stones like they logically should. I thought the repetition of “nobody” throughout the poem served to drill in the idea that the author thought of himself as nobody, felt like he had made no impact on the world, and thought his life was pointless. This idea can be supported the by maze-like structure of the street, “I turning and turning among these corners which lead forever to the street”. No matter where the speaker goes he gets nowhere and can’t find a new path showing the pointless cycle of his life. Also the street being “dark” and “doorless” can be seen as showing the speaker being unable to find/see any purpose in his life. Also the speaker not being able to see himself behind him in the street can symbolize him having no accomplishment in the world and having nothing to look back on. I thought it was cool how the idea of having no purpose and running in a circle doing pointless things in this poem can be related to Heart of Darkness. Like the speaker running in the street people like the pilgrims in the book have no purpose in their work and all the things the do are illogical and seemingly pointless.
ReplyDeleteTessa, I completely agree with your interpretation, mostly how you said that the speaker kept saying "nobody" and that is what he thought of himself. I also took it as his being lonely, and feeling like nobody was there for him, except him, a nobody. I also think that he is in that cycle, which he feels he has no one to blame but himself, and when he tries to escape it, he is the only person preventing him from doing so. Much like someone with an addiction- their mind and body become their own worst enemy.
DeleteTessa, I like your interpretation of "trampling the silent stones." I agree that the speaker's tone is that of helplessness, yet I never considered how the mute stones represent the lack of purpose in the world the speaker feels. That being said, the speaker also refers to himself as "blind" which reinforces your idea that the speaker is lost in a life that is like a maze.
ReplyDeleteI also enjoyed this poem the most. I'm a fan of horror, and the fearful tone of the speaker alone interested me. I like the relation you made between this pointless character and the pilgrims of Heart of Darkness. I agree that both of their lives seem to be pointless and illogical. I think the diction of "doorless" relates to the fact that our actions are inescapable and we can't get away from them. We have to deal with them. I think the fact that they are inescapable may be the speakers main fear. He will always have this feeling of failure on his shoulder.
ReplyDeleteMy above reply was to Tessa. I forgot to mention it..
DeleteInitially, I gathered from the title that "The Street" would be nostalgic, and although it is not, the speaker is still pensive, as he reflects on his constant "turning and turning" in search for "nobody" which, in this case, represents the speaker himself. The repetition of "nobody" emphasizes the speaker's lack of identity and companionship. As the speaker gains momentum through "trampling" and "turning" throughout the poem, the tone becomes more sentimental as his search warrants no discovery. I had a hard time identifying the theme of the poem and would like to hear ideas from others. I felt that the theme relates to how identity is the product of our surroundings, for the speaker's dilemma seems to stem from the "long and silent street."
ReplyDeleteYour interpretation of the poem was very insightful. I completely agree that the speaker could be trying to find himself and that the imagery used to describe the street could be used to symbolizes his loneliness and feeling lost. The poem could possibly be about depression, because when you are depressed, it may seem that no matter how much you press forward and "turn corner" you are still lost.
DeleteNancy, I agree that "trampling" and "turning" give the poem momentum. What is important is where this momentum takes them: down the street. No matter what they do, they always continue down this street which symbolizes life. Life goes on, whether or not you know where you are going. I believe that is one theme of this poem. I love your idea that the speaker's identity is the product of his surroundings. He searches for his identity in the darkness around him, but he might be looking in the wrong place. He stumbles and falls because he does not know his place, but he cannot establish a place because he relies on the exterior to define himself. Perhaps self-reliance is another theme. Paradoxically, relying on defining yourself could help you see the world around you. Just some ideas.
DeleteI was surprised at how deep “The Negro Speaks of Rivers” was, considering the title came across as demeaning due to its simplicity. I’m not sure when this poem was written, but regardless, I feel as though it would carry the most weight and relevance during the times of American slavery or any other time and place of racism for that matter. This poem takes a stand against the assumption that there can be a lesser race. While many plantation owners and even educated politicians looked upon the African American race as uneducated, whose only use was labor. By referencing many different times and places, the speaker not only showcases his knowledge but also reminds the readers that the black heritage played a huge role in the building and development of not only America but also the ancient world.
ReplyDelete“The Street” by Octavio Paz was much harder to interpret. I am curious to see whether others shared my dilemma or if they understood it. From what I was able to understand, I believe the theme could possibly be that we are our worst enemy. This would explain the shift from pursuer to pursue-e and the dark imagery (“silent”, “blackness”, “blind”, and “dark”) that is used. The concise imagery that the author uses also adds to the feeling of the sense of suspense and builds the urgency of the speakers thoughts as the poem progresses.
Eryn, my opinion was opposite from yours in the sense that, I thought "The Street" was easier to interpret than "The Negro Speaks of Rivers". Reading your comment gave me a much greater insight on the reasoning behind the poem "The Negro Speaks of Rivers". I like how you said that the speaker reminds the readers that the black heritage played a huge role in the building and development of not only America but also the ancient world. After reading your comment, I re-read the poem and it has a much greater meaning to me now. I also really like your idea that the theme of "The Street" could be that we are our worst enemy. Although I understood this poem better, I didn't see it this way. I love your idea for the theme. I saw it as being a man running from something very frightful, which now I understand that it could easily be himself that he is running from.
DeleteEryn, I didn't see the title as much as demeaning as I saw it ironic. The term that he uses to describe himself in this was a common slur for people like him during the time period. But he uses the term in the title to capture his audience and then goes on to speak about the rich history that flows through the blood of the black community. I also saw this one to be more easily interpreted because I could catch all the historic allusions that came with the names of the rivers (and I began thinking about Heart of Darkness when he mentions the Congo River).
DeleteBefore I read the poem "The Street" I thought that it was going to be about a path of darkness that the speaker goes down, but, from what I interpreted, it is the complete opposite. I saw the story behind the poem being of a man who is trying to escape from some terrible world of destruction. When the speaker, talking about someone behind him, says "if I slow down, he slows; if I run, he runs I turn : nobody" it shows how paranoid he is about someone following him. The speaker is filled with terror that someone is going to be tracing behind him. The speaker says "I turning and turning among these corners/ which led me forever to the street/ where nobody waits for, nobody follows me". This implies that the speaker is trying to get away from whatever is "following him" and trying to reach a sort of haven ("The Street") where he can start over new. I see this speaker in relation to one of the Africans trying to escape from the dehumanization that is taking place in the Heart of Darkness.
ReplyDeleteKaitlyn, this is an interesting way to view the poem. You saw it much more optimistically than I did. While I agree that the speaker is trying to escape something, I felt that he was more or less running in circles, searching for a way out but not finding one. Because of the dark imagery, I didn't perceive the street as a haven. However, I can definitely see your point of view and I think it fits very well.
Delete"The Street" is definitely about being lost in life. Loneliness fills the poem with diction like "blackness" and "silent." The more I read this poem, the more I think there are actually two speakers. There is the man being pursued and the man pursuing. If you look at it as a comparison between the two, there are many new implications.
ReplyDeleteThe first speaker walks in blackness, "trampling the silent stones and the dry leaves." He feels like he is messing something up but gets no reaction. Then there is someone behind him, also, trampling about. I find it funny how each speaker knows the other is there yet neither can see. I assume they hear the trampling, but the trampling is silent. Why do they know someone else is even there in the silent darkness? But whatever the first does, the other mimics, but how does he know? Is it imagination? Would he make up someone who follows him just to not feel alone?
But the second speaker enters after the first "nobody." I feel like this speaker is actually searching for something because he notes everything is dark and "doorless." He makes turns about the place looking for something apart from the darkness. Despite making all these turns, the street continues beneath him. He pursues the man in front of him who does not see him. I feel like he is trying to find his way by following someone else, but the other man who cannot see him calls him "nobody."
Maybe the two speakers both represent his own journey. He looks for himself, and only finding a mysterious pursuer: nobody. And the very same nobody pursues the lost man. Even though the first speaker feels lost and blind and pointless, he is never called nobody, and I guess that is what bothers me. The only one named "nobody" is the pursuer. Perhaps he is a shadow, meaning that what the first guy leaves behind is nobody. His footprint on life is nothing.
I really want to believe the idea that the pursuing man is a shadow of the first, but the shadow has more action than the first man! I do not understand that. That is why I am not convinced the second man is merely a shadow of the first, especially considering the darkness cannot leave a shadow.
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DeleteLuke, I was originally confused by this poem but your comment brought a new insight that made it make more sense to me. I originally thought there was just one speaker, but as you said it is clear that the first speaker is in a way wondering through the darkness aimlessly while the other one is making turns. The poem even backs up your idea of their being two speakers because it says that he is trying to follow the first speaker stating that he pursues "a man who stumbles/and rises and says when he sees me: nobody." I definitely think that these are two different men, not that one is a shadow of the other because the first seems hopeless while the second seems more aware of what is going on. In my opinion the first speaker would have to be the shadow due to the fact that he doesn't seem to know what's going on but then this is proved to be impossible because the second speaker states that "nobody follows me", but then again like you said, the pursuer(second speaker) is nobody so perhaps he too has a follower that isn't represented in the poem.
Delete"The Street" by Octavio Paz was my favorite of the two poems. It had such dark and parallel universe-type of imagery in the beginning. That, and the mystery of who was following the speaker really made for an uneasy mood. The speakers paranoid tone was contagious. The last couplet was a real plot twist, because I really did not see the poem ending that way. The theme of being your own worst enemy was very revealing. I took it as that the speaker became the person trapping him on the street, but he was ignorant to it. It seemed like a cycle that had no end. I took it as though the speaker was in some sort of addiction and that is what the street symbolizes. He wants to escape this street but can't because his own body cant see (figuratively and literally) what his own mind knows.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I was somewhat confused about the "silent stones" and "dead leaves," because sound-wise, they are completely different. What do they symbolize? Problems not seen coming and what was left of what he ruined? It is definitely something negative, because this is in this never ending maze. Also, speaking of never-ending maze, I kind of took this to be somewhat of an allusion to the labyrinth in mythology, where people would get trapped and drive themselves insane while in it.
Delete"The cycle" that you mentioned really stuck out to me. It's a very interesting thought; continuing it, do you believe that the person pursuing him is himself? The speaker seems to not know where to go in life, this endless "street." Maybe it is his past, this "nobody" that is haunting him and following him.
DeleteRaxel, the idea of being your own worst enemy really stood out to me too in this poem. It seems as if the speaker is in a constant conflict with his past and who he eventually wants to be, reminding me a lot of who we are both coming into and leaving high school as we go on to meet new people. I think that your mention of addiction could possibly be the speaker longing to always be better than his present self and much like the labyrinth, beginning to drive himself mad over this concept. I thought the silent stones and dead leaves could have possibly represented things he was once involved with, but had moved away from to pursue his other interests, but those elements were still there to remind him of what he was leaving behind each time.
DeleteI really liked how "The Negro Speaks of Rivers" was written in first person, but "I" represents the whole of the black community. This elevates the impact the meaning of the poem has on the reader--by speaking in first-person but implying a whole people, the weight and importance that is put on "I" transfers to the black community.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I noticed how the speaker built his ethos by alluding to the completely different rivers (the Euphrates, the Nile, the Congo, and the Mississippi) in completely different time periods. By making these allusions, the speaker's credibility is strengthened; he (i.e. the whole black community) has been around before "the flow of human blood in human veins."
Maddi, I also saw that "The Negro Speaks of Rivers" is written in the first person to give a sense of unity among the black community. It does give a deeper impact to the story, but in the sense that every person has a very rich history that is deeply connected to some of the greatest civilizations ever, him mentioning the Nile and Euphrates rivers are strong examples of this. He connects the black community and himself to the powerful Egyptian civilization, to put into contrast of how they are treated further along in human civilization.
DeleteI completely agree that it elevate the impact, but until reading this I had yet to think about it. That makes complete sense and it provides evidence for how the title, and the reference of "Negro" connects.
DeleteMary, I saw the reference to the Egyptian civilization and the Pyramids as a way to highlight the fact that it was built on the "backs" of others, something the black community has sadly undergone. I think the way you interpreted it makes more sense because it could connect, as you said, to the black community and its power. Additionally, I really liked the connection to "rich" like the Nile and Euphrates.
My favorite part of "The Negro Speaks of Rivers" is the repetition of, "My soul has grown deep like the rivers." This line is so strong because the speaker is comparing something so emotionally powerful as the soul to the depth of the rivers. If this poem is from the African American's point of view, and rivers get deeper over time, than this may be a representation of the African American's spirits rising over time as they slowly gained freedom over the years. The gaining of their freedom gives their life more meaning and depth.
ReplyDeleteI also noticed the color change of the Mississippi in the same line as Abe Lincoln visits New Orleans. Lincoln was the one who ultimately granted their freedom and changed they're lives and society all together. The color change goes from an ugly muddy color to a beautiful golden color representing the change between slavery(ugly) to freedom(beauty.)
Your interpretation of the rivers becoming deeper over time as a representation of the African Americans rising freedom is something I did not even think about! Over the years, the depth of the rivers increased and so did their steps to gaining freedom. This also gives insight as to why the poem mentions Abe Lincoln last in the order of events that the speaker talks about in lines 5-9. Abe Lincoln is given credit in history as the president who helped abolish slavery, and the African Americans freedom was finally achieved. The color change of the Mississippi is also a really good point to note.
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DeleteAlyssa, I too saw the symbolism in the Mississippi's changing of colors when Abe Lincoln came down the river to New Orleans. I didn't, however, consider the fact that rivers to deepen over time due to erosion. It makes sense that this would be a representation of African-Americans spirits rising with the rising hope and promise of freedom.
DeleteAs I began reading "The Street" I assumed that the man was being followed by his shadow the entire time, but once the shift occured to the man actually following himself, my mind was blown. The whole poem is about inception and the constant turning of corners which symbolized how the man would go back and forth between being followed and following himself. It's a hard concept to grasp, and it amazes me that the author of the poem could write something so complex. I interpreted the theme of the poem as you cannot escape your true self. The man was either being followed by himself or following himself. Either way, he was always there with himself.
ReplyDeleteIn "The Negro Speaks of Rivers" I completely missed the deeper meaning to the poem until after I had read it and thought to myself why would the title mention "Negro?" It finally occurred to me that the pyramids, the Mississippi River and Abe Lincoln all related back to one common aspect, which is when African Americans were forced into slavery.The black man who is the speaker is actually speaking for all African Americans as a whole when he says "I" and all of the experiences they have went through over hundreds of years led by these rivers.
I completely agree with you that the concept within "The Street" is hard to grasp and complex. I also thought the theme related to that of an inability to escape because even when he turned the corner, hoping to get rid of the person following him, he found himself only deeper in the madness. The speaker is unable to leave the street or the other someone, because it only brings him back to himself.
DeleteHailey, I felt the same way when the poem reveled that the man was following himself my mind was blown too! I like what you're saying about how the man can't escape his true self/what he has become. Despite all the corners he turns while running down the street he can't escape the lack of accomplishments and purpose in his life. I thought it was very interesting that the author used the word "I" to refer to all black people and I felt like it gave the poem more feeling behind it. The author felt a closes connection to his fellow people of color and felt very strongly/personally for the history of his race. I was really impressed with how he used the speakers different experiences by different rivers to show a timeline of the history of his people.
DeleteThere is a lot of repetition and allusion to the past in “The Negro Speaks of Rivers”. It may appear to be a very short poem, but it is very deep, yet easy to analyze. This poem speaks about the history of African-Americans without even stating specific events. The selection of detail instead evokes what we already know about black history. He ties back to the poem through specifically only selecting to use the names of rivers. By saying “I bathed in the Euphrates when dawns were young” he alludes back to the time of pre-history. When claiming to have “built my hut near the Congo”, he speaks about the Congo River, where his ancestors spread to in later history and possibly how they were brought to American via the cruel Atlantic Slave Trade. “I looked upon the Nile and raised the pyramids above it”, he alludes to the Ancient Egyptians, one of the most powerful and well known civilizations in human history, where his ancestors came from. This all speaks of the rich history that the African-Americans have, and saying that his “blood runs deep” means that his history runs deep into the history of the earth.
ReplyDeleteI found both poems, "The Street" and "The Negro Speaks of Rivers" extremely interesting because they were unique and presented subjects in a new light. Looking only at the title, I assumed "The Street" would highlight and describe a street. Instead, and what made it interesting to me, it spoke of a walk, and partial run, into a recurring reality that seems inescapable. The line, "turning and turning among these corners which lead forever to the street" shifts the perspective of the speaker from the person being followed, to the person following. Paz underlines the fact that this life on the street is never ending but saying that turning the corners leads only to "forever".
ReplyDeleteAt first glance into "The Negro Speaks of Rivers", I failed to relate the meaning of the poem to slavery, especially particular to African Americans. However, after analyzing the poem, I realized that each allusion was hinting at the slavery that was present all along. Within the poem, the speaker states, " I built my hut near the Congo and it lulled me to sleep." This refers to the Africa from which the "negro" came. Then the speaker goes on to mention the pyramids, which were built on the backs of others, and Abe Lincoln, the President which abolished slavery. Together, these elements come together to highlight the argument of the speaker and provide evidence for why he feels as he does.
The idea of being rooted and grasping a depth to your heritage is prominently presented in The Negro Speaks of Rivers. It show the great amounts of pride the speaker has with his history. Human veins, mentioned in the 3rd line, are like the roots of the human body. Rivers, the main object in the poem resemble roots as they flow in a channel to the sea or lake (etc.).
ReplyDeleteThe definition of a root is “the part of a plant that attaches it to the ground or to a support, typically underground, conveying water and nourishment to the rest of the plant via numerous branches and fibers.”. Therefore, these underground metaphorical roots are essential to understand because you have to look below to know whats growing above. Applying this to depth of rivers, you wouldn’t take a boat out on a river if you didn’t know how deep it was and the culture and history that lies beneath it.
Virginia, I like how you made a connection to plant roots. I think that the idea of roots is a great way to picture the history of a race.To add on what you said about human veins, I think rivers act a lot like the veins in our body, bringing water throughout the land. Blood in the human body is like water in rivers in that brings life to wherever it goes. Line 2 of the poem says "I've known rivers ancient as the world and older than the flow of human blood in human veins." Human blood most clearly represents human life. This means that rivers represent life too, but blood brings life to individual people, while rivers are the lifeblood of the cumulative human soul.
DeleteWhile reading both poems, I found The Street easier to connect to and understand due to the circumstances we are all presently facing as high school seniors. The speaker in this poem is struggling with his old self and who he used to be, even though he tries, it is very difficult for him to break away from the the person behind him who "also tramples, stones, leaves" and mirrors everything he does while on this street. We are all about to start a new and unfamiliar journey where we could choose to pursue being someone new and recreating our old images. However, I found it interesting that in the last two lines, after the speaker comes to realize that he is no longer being followed, he has been in pursuit of a better version of himself and has completed a journey of a self actualizing form. This to me gave a representation that we do not know what lies ahead of us and we will face struggles along the way, but as we go we will eventually also discover ourselves. The Negro Speakers of Rivers also represents the same idea as the speakers life experiences add to the depth of his soul as a person.Overall, both of these poems serve to symbolize what lies ahead will fulfill and go beyond that which lies behind.
ReplyDeleteMy favorite poem this week was "The Negro Speaks of Rivers", the repetition of the rivers reinforces the metaphor that likens the soul of the black community to the ancient rivers. To me, the poem seemed to switch speakers when each specific river was mentioned. What brought this to my attention is that when it mentions the Euphrates it is clearly talking about the beginning of time and someone who was around at the beginning wouldn't be able to be at the Mississippi when Abe Lincoln went to New Orleans. When Abe Lincoln comes down the Mississippi changes from a muddy color to a golden one, this changing of colors is symbolic of the change that Abe Lincoln was trying to bring to the lives of enslaved African-Americans by ultimately bringing an end to slavery. By alluding to different time periods in which African's were forced into slavery this poem reveals the rich history that all African-American's share, deepening each of their souls and uniting them as a community.
ReplyDeleteLindsey, I liked the idea of switching speakers as the poem progressed. I pictured different people walking up to a microphone to express their stories to a crowd of modern people, emphasizing their struggles and the importance of recognizing each situation. It adds to the sense of unity, bringing in people of different time periods, struggles, and areas to represent a whole and how the situation has moved ultimately to the end with Abe Lincoln.
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ReplyDeleteI perceived "The Street" as a poem about a person going through a dark time. He feels very alone, even though there is somebody following him. I think the follower is somebody who's watching the person suffer from the outside: he sees him fall, but he won't help him up. Maybe he even instigates it? The speaker then becomes the follower. Because he didn't receive help from others in his time of need, he doesn't help others in their time of need. I'd like to know others' opinions about the follower and the speaker, in turn, becoming the follower, because I'm not so sure my opinion is correct or even close to the real meaning.
ReplyDeleteI liked The Negro Speaks of Rivers. I felt that, through personification, the writer was able to give life to the rivers that gave life to him. He's obviously been impacted by the rivers, possibly because water is often a symbol for freedom (such as in The Awakening) or because rivers were a major part of the underground railroad.
Taylor, I thought your interpretation of "The Street" was realy interesting because I hadn't seen it that way, but what you're saying makes total sense. It's like he's getting revenge for never getting help by never giving help. I viewed it as more of a running from your past self situation, but your explanation also works very well. This made me see the poem in a whole new light and opened my eyes as to possible reasons for the speaker feeling so alone in the first place. I think this poem can be interpreted in many different ways, but I definitely love how you saw and explained it as him being bitter about never receiving help.
DeleteMy favorite of the two poems was "The Street" by Octavio Paz because I thought it was so interesting how the speaker was chasing himself in the end. I think, in a way, we all try to run from who we used to be, but this poem highlights the futility of that. We don't want accept that we used to be shallow or ugly or any other unfavorable characteristic so we try to run from that, but it's inescapable. The street of life is "dark and doorless" so you will eventually have to face who you were because there's no way out. Your old self may be your enemy or exactly what you don't want to be, but what's in the past can't be changed and it is inevitable that you will have to deal it. I thought the corners were symbolic of obstacles and how challenges in life will often lead you back to who you used to be in some way. The past may be scary and seem like it's chasing you, but dealing with it is the only way to move past it. The poem had a very lonely tone and I thought it showed that in life, the only person you really have to turn to is yourself which is a rather depressing concept, but in some cases it is also very true.
ReplyDelete"The Street" by Octavio Paz makes me think of someone battling depression. He is blind in some darkness and just cannot find a way to escape. It does not matter how fast he runs or where he turns. He will always end up back on that same street because depression is not something that can be fixed through the will power of the speaker alone. The feeling that someone is behind him is the anxiety that the speaker feels. He does not find the source of this anxiety, and believes that no one is there. In the end, he becomes the person following "a man who stumbles and rises," and so a never-ending cycle exists. The speaker causes his own anxiety and fear, so he is lost with no way to fix the way he feels. The speaker is trapped alone, forever hopeless. The cycle will never end.
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