They are more critical against Chopins treatment of the subject matter than the subject matter itself. The Globe-Democrat acknowledges that she is addressing a problems that "deals with existent conditions" but notes that she does not present an actual solution. The Times-Herald calls the novel strong and accurate when it comes to the "phases of feminine character" but says that it is ruined because of the high content of sexual subject matter.
Eryn, I agree with you that both reviews are more critical of her analysis of the subject matter and I like that you included the Times-Herald comment about its inclusion of sexual subject matter. That detail helps to round out that while Chopin wrote about an already controversial subject, she may have only worsened the publics view of it due to the sexual instances it included.
I completely agree! It seems like they do not have a problem with the subject, rather how she approaches it. Globe-Democrat even acknowledge that the subject has "existent conditions," so they know it is a serious subject-matter, yet they still seem to belittle it and think that it is outdated, and if Chopin is going to stick with this theme than she should at least try to offer a solution. It comes off as though they believe the entire book was just a waste.
They are reacting against the subject itself. The Globe-Democrat says that if it were written by someone else, Chopin herself would want to "tear it to pieces," indicating that even if someone else wrote it, it would still be bad. Therefore, it is criticizing the subject and not how the author presents it. The Times-Herald says that such a great writer shouldn't have entered "the overworked field of sex fiction." It says Chopin is great, and the subject overworked, again insulting the subject and not Chopin.
Wow! When I first saw that your view was the opposite of mine I thought I was going to completely disagree with your comment. After reading this I almost want to change my opinion to meet yours. I think that I looked at this question and the related content in the reviews with a very closed mind. I see where you are coming from and you pointed out views that I didn't pay hardly enough attention to before.
Alyssa, I was also thinking the opposite of what you said at first, but I think you are correct in saying that the critics were acting against the subject itself because the Globe-Democrat said that even Chopin would criticize this work. In the Times-Herald, they say that Kate Chopin is a great writer who chose to "enter the overworked field of sex fiction." They give no criticism of Chopin's work in this field.
They are both definitely more critical of the way that Chopin has chosen to treat the subject matter due to the standard she is held to. The Times-Herald goes to mention that fans Edna previously won with her previous work would be disappointed in "The Awakening" and implies that she is not reaching the reputation she once established. The Globe-Democrat also includes that if someone else had written the book and Chopin were to read it, she would "tear it to pieces" herself. Both reviews give the idea that Chopin was regarded as a strong, admired writer who could have performed much better even with the sensitive subject matter at hand due to her great ability.
I agree completely with your opinion! I also thought it was a very significant statement that said that if Chopin was reading this same book by a different author then she would "tear it to pieces" with criticism. I think what the criticizers are trying to get at is that this novel was very unexpected coming from Chopin. It was not her usual type of writing and her fans weren't used to reading something this far from her usual works.
I agree, they are attacking her treatment of the subject matter rather than the subject. I do find this odd though because the subject seems to be rather risky for the time period. It was not normal for a women to speak her mind. Due to this, I feel this is why they are reacting the way they are to her novel. It isn't like a women like herself, with such high standards and popularity to write something that is going to soil her name.
I think that the Globe-Democrat and the Times-herald are reacting more against Chopin's treatment of her subject rather than the subject matter itself. The Globe-Democrat comes out and states that "[The Awakening] is not a healthy book" and the Times Herald says that "it was not necessary for a writer of so great refinement and poetic grace to enter the overworked field of sex fiction.". Both continue to make a point that Chopin is an extremely talented writer and this novel was not her style and was not necessary. They also talk about how surprised and disappointed her previous fans will be with this new work. "The many admirers whom she has won by her earlier work will be surprised- perhaps disagreeably -by this latest venture." is stated by the Times-Herald.
I agree with you that the Globe Democrat and the Times herald are reacting more against Chopin's treatment of her subject rather than the subject matter itself. In the Times Heralds statement "it was not necessary for a writer of so great refinement and poetic grace to enter the overworked field of sex fiction." I think it's important to focus on the part "overworked field of sex fiction.", I feel like this shows that the Times Herald didn't really fully understand the subject matter/ point that Chopin was trying to get across. If they did understand the ideas Chopin was trying to highlight then this shows that their preconceived ideas about the subject matter and social norms caused them to have a bias that twisted them to believe and say that Chopin's book with themes of female repression is actually just sex fiction.
These critics are most definitely reacting more against Chopin's treatment of her subject rather than the subject matter itself. The Globe-Democrat even says that the novel deals with "existent conditions" showing that this is a known subject it also says previously that "if it points any particular moral or teaches any lesson, the fact is not apparent" leading me to believe that they wish she had tried to provide a solution to this subject matter rather than just basing her novel on it. The Times-Herald then says that Chopin shouldn't have entered "the overworked field of sex fiction" showing that not only was the topic quite controversial but she also added in sexual content making it less desirable to the public.
Globe Democrat and Times- Herald are both reacting to Chopin's treatment of the subject matter. They both agree that a women, poetic and knowledgeable like herself, should not be writing about things that are morbid, sex related, or criticizing.
They both believe that the novel is adding some negative like to her name and is making her into a less appealing writer. The lesson and moral she is trying to teach the readers is negative and not ok for her standards that she has set up for herself in their eyes.
I think the Globe-Democrat and the Times-Herald are criticizing her writing more than the subject matter. It's true that she is writing about a problem without actually offering a solution. I think the way Edna is portrayed and the subject is discussed discredits her argument. The Globe-Democrat says this is a "morbid book." Edna's life is portrayed far more tragically than I really believe it should be. Not every woman at the time was so miserable she'd rather die than live with her husband. If Chopin portrayed Edna more realistically, I think she would have gotten better reviews and her argument would have been more valid.
The Globe-Democrat & Times Herald absolutely has a problem with the subject matter rather than her writing. Before publishing this book Chopin was mainly Local Color writer, and she wrote, as the Times Herald refers to her work, as "delightful sketches". The Times-Herald finds these stories delightful because they were cute pieces with the purpose of entertaining others. Like Mademoiselle Reisz, a woman's art isn't just to "delight" an audience; women, just as well as men, can express themselves through art. The moment Chopin tackles a complex issue, one that directly speaks to her soul, she is suddenly "morbid" and writing "sex fiction"?! What sex scene are they referring to? Her writing is not what they have an issue with, like we stated earlier, even the critics praise her style and quality of her work. They had an issue with Edna: she was not a typical Victorian Woman, she had her own interests, sexual desires, and her own identity. Additionally, the critics argue that the novel doesn’t offer a solution to “existent conditions”. The fact that they use a euphemism to describe a large issue shows that they don’t understand the gravitas of the issue itself, and by expecting her to offer a one-size fits all solution to such a complex problem undermines the complexities of the actual issues. The critics prove two things: 1. We do not want to recognize the severity of the issues 2. We prefer Chopin as the cute Farival Twins ready and eager to entertain than a protagonist daring to seek out her own individual freedoms.
They are more critical against Chopins treatment of the subject matter than the subject matter itself. The Globe-Democrat acknowledges that she is addressing a problems that "deals with existent conditions" but notes that she does not present an actual solution. The Times-Herald calls the novel strong and accurate when it comes to the "phases of feminine character" but says that it is ruined because of the high content of sexual subject matter.
ReplyDeleteEryn, I agree with you that both reviews are more critical of her analysis of the subject matter and I like that you included the Times-Herald comment about its inclusion of sexual subject matter. That detail helps to round out that while Chopin wrote about an already controversial subject, she may have only worsened the publics view of it due to the sexual instances it included.
DeleteI completely agree! It seems like they do not have a problem with the subject, rather how she approaches it. Globe-Democrat even acknowledge that the subject has "existent conditions," so they know it is a serious subject-matter, yet they still seem to belittle it and think that it is outdated, and if Chopin is going to stick with this theme than she should at least try to offer a solution. It comes off as though they believe the entire book was just a waste.
DeleteThey are reacting against the subject itself. The Globe-Democrat says that if it were written by someone else, Chopin herself would want to "tear it to pieces," indicating that even if someone else wrote it, it would still be bad. Therefore, it is criticizing the subject and not how the author presents it. The Times-Herald says that such a great writer shouldn't have entered "the overworked field of sex fiction." It says Chopin is great, and the subject overworked, again insulting the subject and not Chopin.
ReplyDeleteWow! When I first saw that your view was the opposite of mine I thought I was going to completely disagree with your comment. After reading this I almost want to change my opinion to meet yours. I think that I looked at this question and the related content in the reviews with a very closed mind. I see where you are coming from and you pointed out views that I didn't pay hardly enough attention to before.
DeleteAlyssa, I was also thinking the opposite of what you said at first, but I think you are correct in saying that the critics were acting against the subject itself because the Globe-Democrat said that even Chopin would criticize this work. In the Times-Herald, they say that Kate Chopin is a great writer who chose to "enter the overworked field of sex fiction." They give no criticism of Chopin's work in this field.
DeleteBut how is this "sex fiction"? I'm confused...
DeleteThey are both definitely more critical of the way that Chopin has chosen to treat the subject matter due to the standard she is held to. The Times-Herald goes to mention that fans Edna previously won with her previous work would be disappointed in "The Awakening" and implies that she is not reaching the reputation she once established. The Globe-Democrat also includes that if someone else had written the book and Chopin were to read it, she would "tear it to pieces" herself. Both reviews give the idea that Chopin was regarded as a strong, admired writer who could have performed much better even with the sensitive subject matter at hand due to her great ability.
ReplyDeleteI agree completely with your opinion! I also thought it was a very significant statement that said that if Chopin was reading this same book by a different author then she would "tear it to pieces" with criticism. I think what the criticizers are trying to get at is that this novel was very unexpected coming from Chopin. It was not her usual type of writing and her fans weren't used to reading something this far from her usual works.
DeleteI agree, they are attacking her treatment of the subject matter rather than the subject. I do find this odd though because the subject seems to be rather risky for the time period. It was not normal for a women to speak her mind. Due to this, I feel this is why they are reacting the way they are to her novel. It isn't like a women like herself, with such high standards and popularity to write something that is going to soil her name.
DeleteI think that the Globe-Democrat and the Times-herald are reacting more against Chopin's treatment of her subject rather than the subject matter itself. The Globe-Democrat comes out and states that "[The Awakening] is not a healthy book" and the Times Herald says that "it was not necessary for a writer of so great refinement and poetic grace to enter the overworked field of sex fiction.". Both continue to make a point that Chopin is an extremely talented writer and this novel was not her style and was not necessary. They also talk about how surprised and disappointed her previous fans will be with this new work. "The many admirers whom she has won by her earlier work will be surprised- perhaps disagreeably -by this latest venture." is stated by the Times-Herald.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that the Globe Democrat and the Times herald are reacting more against Chopin's treatment of her subject rather than the subject matter itself. In the Times Heralds statement "it was not necessary for a writer of so great refinement and poetic grace to enter the overworked field of sex fiction." I think it's important to focus on the part "overworked field of sex fiction.", I feel like this shows that the Times Herald didn't really fully understand the subject matter/ point that Chopin was trying to get across. If they did understand the ideas Chopin was trying to highlight then this shows that their preconceived ideas about the subject matter and social norms caused them to have a bias that twisted them to believe and say that Chopin's book with themes of female repression is actually just sex fiction.
DeleteTessa, it seems to me that you arguing that have an issue more with the subject matter.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThese critics are most definitely reacting more against Chopin's treatment of her subject rather than the subject matter itself. The Globe-Democrat even says that the novel deals with "existent conditions" showing that this is a known subject it also says previously that "if it points any particular moral or teaches any lesson, the fact is not apparent" leading me to believe that they wish she had tried to provide a solution to this subject matter rather than just basing her novel on it. The Times-Herald then says that Chopin shouldn't have entered "the overworked field of sex fiction" showing that not only was the topic quite controversial but she also added in sexual content making it less desirable to the public.
ReplyDeleteGlobe Democrat and Times- Herald are both reacting to Chopin's treatment of the subject matter. They both agree that a women, poetic and knowledgeable like herself, should not be writing about things that are morbid, sex related, or criticizing.
ReplyDeleteThey both believe that the novel is adding some negative like to her name and is making her into a less appealing writer. The lesson and moral she is trying to teach the readers is negative and not ok for her standards that she has set up for herself in their eyes.
ReplyDeleteBecause in a way, she is transforming to Reisz; she writing this novel for art's sake. This is not what they want from Chopin.
DeleteI think the Globe-Democrat and the Times-Herald are criticizing her writing more than the subject matter. It's true that she is writing about a problem without actually offering a solution. I think the way Edna is portrayed and the subject is discussed discredits her argument. The Globe-Democrat says this is a "morbid book." Edna's life is portrayed far more tragically than I really believe it should be. Not every woman at the time was so miserable she'd rather die than live with her husband. If Chopin portrayed Edna more realistically, I think she would have gotten better reviews and her argument would have been more valid.
ReplyDeleteThe Globe-Democrat & Times Herald absolutely has a problem with the subject matter rather than her writing. Before publishing this book Chopin was mainly Local Color writer, and she wrote, as the Times Herald refers to her work, as "delightful sketches". The Times-Herald finds these stories delightful because they were cute pieces with the purpose of entertaining others. Like Mademoiselle Reisz, a woman's art isn't just to "delight" an audience; women, just as well as men, can express themselves through art. The moment Chopin tackles a complex issue, one that directly speaks to her soul, she is suddenly "morbid" and writing "sex fiction"?! What sex scene are they referring to? Her writing is not what they have an issue with, like we stated earlier, even the critics praise her style and quality of her work. They had an issue with Edna: she was not a typical Victorian Woman, she had her own interests, sexual desires, and her own identity. Additionally, the critics argue that the novel doesn’t offer a solution to “existent conditions”. The fact that they use a euphemism to describe a large issue shows that they don’t understand the gravitas of the issue itself, and by expecting her to offer a one-size fits all solution to such a complex problem undermines the complexities of the actual issues. The critics prove two things: 1. We do not want to recognize the severity of the issues 2. We prefer Chopin as the cute Farival Twins ready and eager to entertain than a protagonist daring to seek out her own individual freedoms.
ReplyDelete